Please read the directions on the first tab completely before using the spreadsheet. It just makes crashing safer — as if that makes any sense. Sorry, your blog cannot share posts by email. You’d be remiss not to examine your expenses over the last three to five years, with adjustments according to any significant changes. It is for these reasons that most workplaces nowadays use payroll software to take care of these responsibilities. There simply is no way around it. The first major component to need replacement was the starter and ring gear. Since writing this post, I’ve had several major life changes and finally found a nice doing contract work with my R44 that covers all my costs and helps me live the kind of lifestyle I like: simple and mostly stress-free. Expect running cost of the turbine. Rotorheads - Crop Spraying - G'Dday Nigel, Spraying when it's 110 degrees!! Airframe maintenance (includes prop, GPS, radios, etc.) I have no idea what the going price is for a timed-out R44. your experience on real costs is PRICELESS !!! History The first known application of spraying agricultural materials from the air occurred in 1906 when John Chaytor spread seed over a swamped valley floor in New Zealand from a… If you plan to keep it beyond overhaul, do set aside that money every hour; you’ll be glad you did. I take it your only ownership experience is with RHC products. 3 x Robinson R44 Ravenl Helicopters Spraying, Top Dressing, Lifting, FireFighting. He told me about his plans to lease an R44 helicopter to start a business in a small Wyoming city. I don’t blog every flight I do. Stress-free, cost effective and efficient. Insurance/Other (Work. Posted by Bill Lavender | Apr 3, 2017 | Editorials | 0. Carlos A/P I/A hel air. If I pulled out my Engine and Aircraft log books, I’m sure I could list a lot more of the same: items that are supposed to last the life of the aircraft (okay, well maybe not the battery) simply not lasting. I’ve also replaced the battery twice (at $400 a pop) and my oil pressure gauge once. So I’m basically required to modify my aircraft to reduce Robinson’s liability in the event that I crash and my helicopter catches fire? Owning a helicopter isn’t something a person living on a budget can do. Still, when I made my purchase/ownership decision, I plugged in whatever known numbers I had and relied on Robinson’s numbers for the unknown — especially the cost of periodic inspections and unscheduled maintenance. First, in July 2006, came Safety Notice 40, which states: There have been a number of cases where helicopter or light plane occupants have survived an accident only to be severely burned by fire following the accident. like fuel system, atv, sling load eq, gps, icoms, helmets etc. Each one of these required maintenance items cost money — sometimes thousands of dollars. Ground Operations (loader truck repairs, trade pick-up every fourth year, fuel, general maintenance) $25,000 a year. And then again another 500 hours later. Using helicopters in applying herbicides is not simply more cost-effective but also saves time and mitigates the need for supplementary ground crews. There’s no way someone leasing an aircraft could operate as cheaply as an owner; if there was, we’d all lease instead of buy. Helicopter Aerial Spraying Vs. Do you really need to buy that ground spraying rig? Are you ready for a contestable, detailed dissertation on the per hour costs of running an ag operation? Obviously your fuel costs are higher — I’m currently paying $5-$6 per gallon. NE-IA Helicopter offers unparalleled service across all facets of the aerial application industry. Factors would include pilot costs, insurance, fuel, application products, etc. Is 18.7% enough profit margin? Your feedback will be greatly appreciated! … I own a 2004 RavenII, now at 930TT But I don’t have the luxury of choice in these matters. My question is what price is reasonable for a 2200hr r44ii or raven I? Is this enough profit to accept the risk and responsibility of being an operator? Any machine that turns gasoline into noise and life ain’t gonna be cheap to own or fix. Projected operating costs are works of fantasy,and not just Robinson’s. Another $100 a tach hour, driving the gross to $1,500 an hour? That blog post has been on my site for seven years and today you’ve decided to come online and be the first person to criticize my writing style? One day I will be at the right place at the right time. Why not just be a pilot? I knew that 5 years later, I might park out in the rain. Are they kidding us? And how do you think my passengers would feel if their pilot showed up wearing a pickle suit and helmet for their tour or charter flight? “Affordable” is a relative term. Have a lot of extra money to use so I felt like buying a small,,,possibly used Helicopter…..after reading the articles and every ones comments….I think I’ll just buy an office building and then jump out of it…….it’s cheaper It cost about $220K. My six-figure income years are gone. Being the pilot and any combination of manager and owner, you expose yourself tremendously, as the entire operation is dependant upon your good health. Knowing how much it cost to operate your aircraft is a complex issue. I now fly Bell 206B3 and L3 helicopters and I agree with all your comments. There have been instances of post-crash fires on Robinson helicopters. We understand the needs associated with farming and the importance of completing specific tasks within the appropriate time frame. Moreover, some employers even choose to enlist the services such as those of cloudpay.net to help with the whole process. On the other hand, you could say this works in the inverse with a larger aircraft, for example an aircraft with an 800-gallon hopper. Sounds like you should move to winnipeg lol. I am writing In response to the operating cost Blog. In other words, I don’t live beyond my means. Any thoughts on overhauling would be greatly appreciated. Don’t count on this rule of thumb to be an easy way to calculate your costs. Posted on February 19, 2019 by vanessa.corriher. Titled “R44 Raven II Estimated Operating Costs,” it painted a rosy picture of an “affordable” helicopter (if there is such a thing). Plug that factor into your hourly gross and you are now at about $1,400 per tach hour. How many private owners — the same guys buying the expensive cars Robinson is comparing its helicopters to — fly. I was interested to hear that you were able to send a mechanic to the factory maint. As for the blue sky of the business, oftentimes it is only there because you run the company. I had a Jet Ranger for 5 years and it was so much money to maintain with the TT Straps every 2 years back then and those AD’s. First, thanks for the kind words. Last spring, I flew from Salt Lake City to Seattle with another pilot who was building time, waiting for a CFI job to open up at his flight school. You simply cannot operate a business on pilot’s pay that requires a $650,000 equipment expenditure with untold thousands of more dollars for support equipment, payroll and office/hangar space. The RMAX is a helicopter design UAV for precision agriculture spraying with price estimates from $80-$120,000, however, according to the company website “Yamaha will offer a service to interested growers; however, in the future we also plan to offer a lease option to growers/businesses that have the proper licenses and qualifications. This highly experienced and trained crew will be on the lookout for the best water source […] very useful article/post. Water in the fuel tank, seat belt buckle attachment points cracking, stuck throttle link, cracked fuel lines, chaffed wiring. Hey now. And I’d much rather get my ATP than A&P. My name is Alex, sorry for bothering you. Needs to written off. Thanks, and I look forward to reading other posts. Ag-aircraft are high use and abuse equipment, making it difficult for them to retain value. I had an overhaul done on my old 2005 Raven II, which already had bladder tanks. Of course, anyone can tear holes into the above numbers. I’m worried mostly about liability if something happens and the tanks are not installed. Sometimes I know the pilot. If it can wait four years, why can’t it wait indefinitely? New Y20pro agricultural pesticide sprayer drone helicopter electric sprayer. Helicopter spraying is an extremely cost effective method of chemical application, particularly in the hill country. After all, they’ve given us until December 31, 2014 to comply. Sometimes you get lucky. Of course, that calculation doesn’t include my other costs to operate a business: advertising, supplies, travel, hangar rent, automobiles, taxes, fees, etc., etc. I live in the desert and my helicopter is hangared. Bond sold their Hillers in 1986 to a company in Lincolnshire who were also spaying with a 206. One AD was to add a containment ring on the turbine in case it explode and dammage the second turbine. Realistically, its more like 15-17 gallons per hour. And then again about 100 hours after that. All this eq. 2.0 Units (Min. My pockets are not as deep as they once were. This is not one of the estimated costs on Robinson’s fairy … Traditional Airplane Spraying The use of aircraft to spray chemicals, fertilizers and seeds over crops goes back over a hundred years. Of course, anyone can tear holes into the above numbers. Granted, Robinson’s figures are rosy – but so is the MPG sticker on your car. Later, I had a mechanic who charged me $75/hour. That would have been a very inconvenient $48K bill. This is not one of the estimated costs on Robinson’s fairy tale cost estimate marketing document. If you can’t honestly look at costs, you can’t succeed. Best regards The result was within my budget, so I became an owner. According to Latvian entrepreneur Elviss Straupenieks, it costs about US$65,000 a year to pesticide-spray an average-size vineyard using a helicopter. Yet every time it happens, I spend $1000 to $1800 getting it fixed. I’ve budgeted a lump sum for this “hobby” and as soon as it ends I’ll have to sell the craft and find some other way to spend my spare time. It does put focus on the notion of doing what you really love and not worrying about income. There we go, chewing away at our average. I will just continue to rent when I want my fix, this was a expensive bug to be bitten by. I have been curious about this topic and this happens to be the first article I found. Ed S, Hi everyone , thank you for this wealth of information….you have saved me a lot of trouble as I was nearly on my way to get my helicopter ticket and buy a R44, after thinking about it for a whole year, and practicing at home on a simulator !!! Add hangar, other equipment, training, etc. Do you have an idea what the burn rate is & how that impacts cost per hour (my guess is that the $200 an hour on the Robbie brochures is a bit optimistic for this type of flying)? Just wanted to thank you for sharing with us the true cost of helicopter ownership. There are too many parameters for calculating operating costs to cover in this article. There has to be a cushion to allow for hidden costs (advertising, work clothes, legal/accounting fees, etc.). Now I need to find your little ‘donate’ button. Well written, changed my whole perspective of owning a hobby helicopter especially Robinson. There’s no proof that this retrofit would prevent a fire anyway. I was lucky that the factory applied the overhaul cost to the price of a new one: $9,000. Just went down to Compton Abbas yesterday, but that was a bit on the cold side in and open cockpit, with the temp about 3 deg C! Sincerely, Mark, Glad you liked the blog post. My personal opinion on the matter is that the starter was defective and did not fully engage with the ring gear on every start. I agree: it’s best to get information from people with first-hand experience. Also curious how much operating in a marine environment would change things. For the over the past 30 years, helicopters fitted with an Isolair Spray system have provided customers with innovative spray systems that are proven to be both reliable and extremely cost effective. We also have additional eq. But it’s very interesting to get your perspective as someone who didn’t necessarily set out to make a living with one of these aircraft. Preciso de mais informações sobre o seguro do R22 você pode me ajudar ? Do you think the Enstrom has more experience in manufacturing Helicopters? As print publishing continues its death spiral, it takes my books along with it. I have been into drones now for about 4 yrs, and the way things are moving in that world it won’t be long till they will carry a person. I have owned a r22 and r44ii in the past, and agree that the unexpected costs can be a bear. that would perform 80% of your missions and still allow you to enjoy flying. Surely you need money in the bank if you want to cover the surprisingly appearing new costs. Okay, this makes sense. The pilot made almost $20,000 more without the financial risks. I tried to tell him, but I don’t think he believed me. I am 67 years old and I feel that the root cause of a lot of the problems are the younger generation have become used to texting, and developed these traits as a result, in my opinion, due to using a number pad to text . The R44 and BELL 47, which are often used in helicopter aerial applications in Indiana, are compact aircraft that easily transport large quantities of spray, reducing fuel costs. Helicopters are always more expensive than similarly performing airplanes. Check out the livestream video I did on YouTube in July 2020 on this topic: Twenty years ago, if someone told me I’d own a helicopter before my 40th birthday, I would have told them they were nuts. This is where honesty begins to come into the equation, being honest with one’s self. Safer than hand spraying. Gyr. Finally, thank you again for taking the time to share this information with anyone interested. Or was — that post was pretty old. The clutch down limit switch, an $8 part, cracked. I know that my usage will affect the amount of money I use. I think gyros are very cool. Too many of us are “programmed” at a young age to seek careers that pay good money and then get sucked into jobs we hate. The pump costs $1,600 new and $800 overhauled. After all, I have to support my mechanics and the Robinson Helicopter Company.”. If you love what you do for a living, you’re not really “working” — and if you get paid enough to live comfortably, that’s even better. US $7598-$9298 / Unit. And none of them were included in Robinson’s estimate of costs. I was thinking about a heli to run back and forth, but thanks to Maria sharing her experience I will no longer pursue this. Instead I’ll just say that when one flies overhead, I MUST stop what I’m doing, and stare at it until it is out of sight. That might save you some money in the short term. I could not pay myself pilot’s pay (25%) after collecting the season’s revenues and paying the bills. Actually you can check Youtube they are already out there, they are not expensive to buy nor maintain. Where did that come from? The annual premium in the current estimated operating costs — around $11,000 — aren’t too far off from what I paid when I insured with them for my commercial operation. Show your appreciation one of the following ways: Post was not sent - check your email addresses! With a utilization of about 150 hours per year, a 44 is rent about 600 euros per hour and that makes some profit. Agricultural crop spraying Helicopters offer many advantages for modern green farming; Spraying nozzles can be changed depending of the plant and crop application type, efficiently saving time, money and manpower; Average person can crop spray 0.24 acres every half hour; Align E1 can crop spray up to 0.48 acres per minute I had just talked with an operator who had attended one of JD’s convention seminars. Robinson’s insurance costs are based on Pathfinder rates. I think that they’re nuts about limiting their liability. Brilliant Maria. Lookout heliport, that picture may stur up the anti Photoshop gang … A service bulletin that became an airworthiness directive required inspection and then repainting (or replacement) of the main rotor blades. I now keep a spare to prevent having to be down more than a day or two. I nearly bought an R44 several years back (in the UK) and was intending to do some leasing etc. 1991 model. On the other hand I have very rarely had a commercial mission cancelled due to a tech fault in my 3000hrs in the Robbie. But thanks for the suggestions. A single helicopter can effectively treat the same size area that had been previously necessitated the employ of 10 to 20 workers, sometimes treating up to 4 acres in less than 10 minutes time. I knew from the start that the document was overly optimistic for my situation. Both were totaled and neither caught fire. Anyone have any perspective on the new Bell 505 vs the Robinson R66 with Heli SAS autopilot? Cheaper aircraft than an R44 for 3 pax seats? That’s not the case. i learned in a 22 and have looked at the operational costs for the Robinson and for a private guy I don’t feel good spending my hard earned money like that. And why? thanks. Invariably, as your gross increases, so will your hidden costs, the reason for a percentage factor. You can’t control costs when a manufacturer can force expensive upgrades. We teach and learn by sharing what we know with others. I know others are seeing pretty much the same thing. In that budget, there has to be profit for the company in order for it to accept its responsibilities, which include a financial return for the owner of the business. I was making a lot of money as a writer back then. I currently farm in southern idaho, and have always thought of ways that I could implement a helicopter in our operation. Hey guys, retired football player here. If you don’t like he way I write, don’t come back. ;-) It amazes me that anyone thinks a helicopter- ANY helicopter- is cheap to operate. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. I work for a sizeable EMS operator, and I know the ballpark of what we charge per flight. Any day you could wake up ill and have to call in another plane and pilot. (Ground spraying rigs you have to drive or tow there. By my calculations, this should cost me between $12,000 and $14,000. Tell that to the folks at Grand Canyon, who hit me up for $6/gallon early this month. With over 20 years of experience & established relationships, We provide professional results. And here’s a secret: I STILL look up and stare when a helicopter flies by. Four years later, on January 8, 2005, I’d traded it in for a brand-spanking-new, designed to my specifications, 2005 Robinson R44 Raven II. Maybe he thought I was trying to discourage him, to minimize my competition. Divide that by the 1100 hours I flew during that period and you get $200 per hour. I own a house in the burbs and a ranch 50mi to the north, in Texas. Alex. Happy flying. I imagine the more technologically advanced the higher the ops. Treating 200 acres an hour at $7.00 an acre, works out to $1,400 which would give the owner/operator a $262 an hour profit (18.7%). The following year, it was still leaking and now overheating. Replace my numbers with yours and see if you are making or losing money. The overhaul was $3,000 plus installation (which requires removal of the tail cone). That’s like requiring older car owners to add airbags and ABS brakes just to reduce the liability of the automakers. Do you believe it is a function of fuel used and engine time only? If I started finding water in the fuel tank, I’d reconsider my position and possibly get it done. And even in the rare instance that it does get rained on, sumping the fuel tanks — which I should be doing before every flight anyway — would drain the water out. And I think a marine environment would add additional costs due to corrosion. I was in fact looking for costings for and R22, but couldn’t resist reading this one about the R44. I just simply love them. Wow I ended up here after seeing on the news that the city of winnipeg pays a contractor $ 5300/hr for a little piss cutter Robinson style helicopter to drop a solid pesticide that kills mosquito larvae. How many hours a year do you fly? It costs about $1,500 each time. (News flash: Most serious aircraft accidents involve post-crash fires.) And how much can I expect to spend in fuel, again a range from the most affordable to the most expensive? US $3600-$4900 / Set. When I got a different mechanic, my costs came down considerably. So, after 6 years of operations, I’m seeing an average hourly cost of $300 per hour — not Robinson’s rosy $185. You obviously have an axe to grind. Ground labor (2 @ $25,000 ea.) I live rather modestly in a home I can afford and although I own more than my fair share of motor vehicles, none of them are new, flashy, or expensive. I got my commercial ticket 6 years ago and have not done much flying since. I am from Sri Lanka and came across you blog. They’re making us pay to reduce their liability to us. I’m starting to think that getting a real job as a helicopter pilot might be a better way to get my “fix.”, How true ! Aerial application chemicals can be mixed and loaded directly on the nurse/platform trucks that transport helicopters, saving time and transportation costs. He didn’t have the experience or specialized tools for the helicopter-specific inspections and maintenance I sometimes needed. My R44, parked out in the desert at a rides event. (And you didn’t blame liberals or Trump for anything). I asked for his notes, as this is one of my favorite things to ponder. As you can see all this comes to much more than the av. Around that time Agricopters sold their Hillers to a couple of Greek companies. I own several fixed wing aircraft and only recently got my hell ticket. Here Carlos in Chicago Do you think helicopter manufacturer affects op costs significantly? I also know about that R22 blade AD — I was fortunate enough to sell mine about a month before it was issued. I’m just telling it like it is. Found this post very interesting. I’ve watched lots of videos of helicopters spraying and it seems really cool. At the same time, I had one mechanic charging me $95/hour and another charging me $105/hour. There used to be a magical rule of thumb (that should not work out by any reasoning) that an operation should gross the value of the aircraft, $1,400 X 500 = $700,000. I’d try to ask you one more question: do you know by chance the best place/link where to look for such R44 ? I charged $48.00 an hour for a Hughes 269A that sold for $22,500.00. So, I’ll take the simplest example possible and work from there. To stay in compliance in my extremely corrosive (think dust) operating environment, I’ve had the blades removed and repainted twice in six years. But hey, why believe me? But how many others simply couldn’t afford it? 5 Sets (Min. Boost your bottom line with the helicopter spraying services from M&D Aerial in Texas, Oklahoma and New Mexico. He had some specific ideas (which I won’t share here) that might or might not generate revenue. Any cost estimates provided by the manufacturer will be pure fantasy based on best-case scenarios with minimal hourly rates and unit costs. If you like helicopters, you’ll love the FlyingMAir YouTube Channel. To start, let’s assume we are discussing a single, turbine aircraft operation flying 500 hours a year. I am getting the flu now and I am thinking to buy a R44 :) , but all I hear is how expensive is to fly them. Helicopter prices can range from $27,000,000. They examine the problem area and come up with a new design to fix it in the future. Ok, where are we now with our hourly gross? course, and then use them for your ship. The following posts might be related to this post: well written, factual…and sadly very true So yes, I changed the orientation of the fuel control because some idiot who likely left his helicopter out in the rain all the time was getting water in his fuel — even though my helicopter was based in the desert, where it rarely rained, and was kept in a hangar. And we can’t really expect the manufacturer to foot the bill for a change required by the FAA. Gas is less than 1/3 of my total cost of operation. Thanks to all the wrote you comments Sorry, but I don’t offer helicopter consultation services. But no Are these perks enough? I have to fly for hire. were is it going to stop???? Based on your comments it seems like he is burning a lot of fuel. Spraying Our helicopters come equipped with DGPS for accurate application and these line files can be provided for you upon request. With 10% down ($65,000) and financing the balance of $585,000 at 5.5% with seven annual payments = $103,000 a year, divided by 500 hours = $206 2.

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